Tragedy in Pittsburgh Area

**xraypeggy** · August 5th, 2009

The news of the shooting in the Pittsburgh area has been on the news for more than 24 hours now. It makes no sense. If you care at all remember these poor people in your prayers.

**windstar** · August 5th, 2009

xraypeggy is there a link to the story you are referring to. I used to live in Turtle Creek and still like to keep up with what goes on there. Still have friends there and really kinda miss Pa.

**xraypeggy** · August 6th, 2009

You could go to the Pittsburgh Post Gazette. They have a story about the shootings
It happened in Collier Twp. near Bridgeville. At the LA Fitness Center. Four Dead I believe 9 or l0 shot, all women in an Aerobic Class. I saw it on GMA this morning.

**windstar** · August 6th, 2009

I just caught it on my local news tonight. Sad, Sad and all for nothing, cause he felt lonely.

**brendaj** · August 6th, 2009

So very sad. Unforturnately, in the U.S., there is very little help available for the mentally ill. This is what can become of it. My heart goes out for the families.
You cannot get someone into Hospital for help unless they want too. My 17 year old son stood one the edge of bridge threatening to jump. The police said they cannot get involved until he does it. I could not have him hospitalized against his will. He shot himself 2 years later.
The mentally ill are not always aware that they need help. And very often the help isn't there anyway. Now with the early release of convicts and lack of help for the mentally ill, this will become a very familar story.
So sad.
brenda in MI

**motoandnutty** · August 6th, 2009

It is heart breaking to hear of your tragedy brendaj, and that of the families of the ladies in Pittsburgh.
The pat answer is to not have guns so freely available, but once they are out there it would be a mammoth job (and probably an impossible one) to remove them from circulation.
I also suspect that anyone who really wanted one would be able to get their hands on one no matter how many obstacles were put in their way.
From what I read of the reports, this particular gunman had not drawn any attention to his mental state until the very moment he pulled the gun from his bag and fired - that could only have been prevented by a great deal extra security in the building - but there would still have been nothing to prevent him from attacking them when they left the place!
My friend with bi-polar disorder has confessed to the odd thought of ending it all, but the fact that she has children and grand children has been the saving grace that tipped the balance. (and possible the fact that she has many good friends that care a great deal for her well being!)

**jstitch** · August 6th, 2009

So sad to read about this in the newspaper. So many people hurting for so many different reasons. I just try to be nice to everyone, because you never know what is going on in their lives or what hurt they are going through. Maybe more kindness could help someone struggling with thinking about doing something like this.

Prayers for all of the families concerned, not to mention the employees of the sports club and their families and everyone else that has been traumatized by this.

**boltonia51** · August 6th, 2009

There is no full understanding of what leads to this terrible turn of events.Or how to appropriately support a person who is in the throws of this sadness.There are so many variables.But largely our medical and legal systems respond most effectively to finance or social status.This pain that we find our selves and our friends in can not be fully expressed by words.ONly our prayers and personal expressions of consideration will ever make a difference.Last night as I walked to my car a man came up and asked for money to buy gas. I was frightened. But my daughter and I gave him the change we had in our purses. He was polite . But it did not relieve my anxiety. But I thought if I were in his position. I would have been in that parking lot all night .I would not have asked anyone for help. But if I had I would have liked for someone to help me.It was around 7:30 and still light. But the sadness and gratitude in his eyes is what I remember.

**xraypeggy** · August 6th, 2009

There is so much saddness in the world but what frightens me today the report that this man here in Pittsburgh but his gun clip at the same web site that sold the gun to the man that attacked the students at Va Tech. There has to be a way to stop this tragedy.

**motoandnutty** · August 7th, 2009

Originally Posted by xraypeggy

There is so much saddness in the world but what frightens me today the report that this man here in Pittsburgh but his gun clip at the same web site that sold the gun to the man that attacked the students at Va Tech. There has to be a way to stop this tragedy.

As I understand it, if they hadn't gone to that retailer (perhaps his prices were cheaper) they would have had little trouble going to another.
Here in the UK we have very big restrictions on having a license to own a gun, but that doesn't mean that there aren't a lot of illegal guns in the hands of very inappropriate people.
It probably costs them more to get hold of them (not a market I am ever likely to have to look into) but I imagine the money isn't theirs in the first place (being the criminals of society in the first place).

**Boodoggie11** · August 7th, 2009

Has anyone in the US ever heard of The Baker Act? We were managing a mobile home community in Jacksonville, FL many years ago. There was one resident who was a bit off the charts. Her case worker at the mental health facility came to talk to me any times. Broke my heart, but she kept calling me about people spying on her and parking in front of her home, etc. I finally had to stop taking her calls. There never was anyone there. Anyhow, she finally quit paying her rent. I evicted her. But she wouldn't leave the community. Served her with a no trespassing order and everything. But she would avoid the police. Knew the community so well. Could find a place to hide. Finally called her case worker. "What can we do?" Baker Act. Only takes 3 people who have seen her act a bit loco to go to a judge and tell their story. The judge then issues a Baker Act and the person is committed until such time as they become "stable". It works, we did it. You can get people help in this country. You just have to know how to do it.
The man who shot the women didn't seem to display any signs of a problem. So he didn't socalize? We have been forced to socalize in the business we were in for so long that we don't do much of it now. Just family. We're not mentally ill. Just like our privacy. No way to know he needed help. So don't blame the system. You can't do something if you don't know it needs to be done.
Restrictions on owning guns are great. Firmly believe in restrictions or rules or laws. But don't tell me I can't own one! Don't want one, but I have the right to own one and I'll fight tooth and nail for that right. People who shouldn't have guns will always find a way to get one. Legal or not. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Not just with guns. There are knives, baseball bats and their hands.
I don't believe there is more killing going on than there used to be. There's just more news coverage. And too much of it. That's one reason people commit these acts. To be famous. Media should report the event and that's it. Don't keep it up for days and days. And don't tell someone else who is on the edge of sanity how to do it or let them think that they will have their days on TV.
Oh, my! I should never have gotten on this soap box.

**windstar** · August 7th, 2009

Boodoggie....do you hear your claps and whistles, You said it all, especially about the media coverage. I don't like guns, wouldn't have one in my home. My dad has one and I had to take it out of his truck and put it in the house when he was recently hospitalized and it gave me the willies to touch it.

**123mccoach** · August 7th, 2009

Originally Posted by windstar

I just caught it on my local news tonight. Sad, Sad and all for nothing, cause he felt lonely.

Until you have lived in his shoes you don't know why he was lonely or depressed. I have been there and it's not a fun place. I didn't hurt anyone or myself because of my family and friends, but that one day I could have. Lucky I found out it was an imballance of some chemical in my brain. It was physical. Maybe his was physical too. He may not have known why he was doing what he was doing. Someone should have gotten him medical help. I'm on medication and I feel great. I do not condone what he did and I don't like guns but if we couldn't buy guns the criminals would still be able to get guns. I pray for the families of the people he killed and I pray for his family.

**debbsie** · August 7th, 2009

The story made the national news here last night with a video that man had made in his earlier days. He had fixed up his place in hopes of meeting a woman and bringing her to his home as 'his woman'. The story went that he never did meet a woman to be his own. I suppose that because he could not win the heart of any woman that he became a misogynist and as a misogynist he then became psychotic to the point where he invaded the womens' fitness club and killed the objects of his misogynic feelings. Sort of a "OK, you don't like me - so here's what happens to you" cause and effect situation. Terrible!

There are a lot of crazies walking around out there. We all need to be vigilant at all times.

**Boodoggie11** · August 7th, 2009

Do not agree. Criminals will get guns. No matter what. They will get them. And there are good reasons for having a gun. We live in the deep woods. We have bears - 450 lbs or more bears - wild boars, bobcats and anything else you can think about. We've talked about a shot gun. We'll have one one day, but I dread it. Really don't want it. It will be registered if and when we do. I hate guns. But like I said, I'll fight for my right to have one.
If nobody was around this person, how could you tell he needed help? He chose his own way. But he could have gotten the help he needed. It's out there. You might have to look, but it's there.
I've always thought the media was way out of line with most of the junk. Michael Jackson? Do I really care about him or his family? Nope. Sorry he's gone, but he did not warrant all the coverage. We turned it off. We were home in Florida when they found the little girl's remains. I think it was at least 2 days of constant coverage, maybe more. Same thing over and over. Discusting. We turned it off, the first day.
Ok, you have a bank robbery and you have a camera in the bank. Then you go for the total coverage. But you don't replay it over and over and over after it's done and the perps are in custody or what ever.
Windstar, if people didn't watch it, if they turned it off, it might not be that way next time. Who ever does the polls just might catch on that the sets are off.
Oh, we did watch one of those things all the way through. I was headed out the door to go to the Post Office one way and then backtrack and head to DeLand. To this minute I do not know why I turned the TV on. Maybe to check the weather. Just no clue. Anyhow, they're broadcasting live from a chopper. Duh, I've seen that house before. Duh, is that a chopper that I hear? Oh, heck, that's our distant neighbor's house. Ok, screamed for my husband to come inside. Locked the doors and all that stuff. Some jerk had shot 2 cops. Killed one. About 2 miles from our house. He was still out there. That kind of coverage is needed and appreciated. We stayed inside for the rest of the day. They finally got him about 5 pm or so. I mean that's close and you need to know. No telling what he could have done if people in our area didn't know. But not worth putting it on national TV. AND they did, too. Why would anyone in New York City need to get the coverage we got that day? Dumb.
Had I gone to the Post Office, I would not have been able to get back to my home until after 6 pm. If I had gone the other way to town first, I would not have been able to get home until after 6 pm. There is only one road, and they closed it tighter than a drum. Never saw so many police cars in one place. Because of the news coverage, we were safe at home. Our neighbors were safe at home. The Postmaster at the little PO called her carrier (only one) to come in cause she was in the area of the crime. But national coverage was just stupid.
Off the soap box again. I really shouldn't do these things. But can't help it. Just call it old age. Naw, been this way all my life. Give me a cause, and I rant and rave. Sorry.

**motoandnutty** · August 7th, 2009

Rant on Boodoggie! You make good sense.
I don't think the media is ever going to get around to acting like the information givers that I would like them to be - there always seems to be a spin on the facts, and quite often fiction (or is it guess work?) dressed up as facts.
I'm afraid no-one would notice if I fail to read the newspaper or watch the news report, as I tend to catch up on what has been going on several days after the fact - either on line, or catch-up tv, or someone else's abandoned newspaper, so I wouldn't be in the statistics.
When you read of something that you have first hand knowledge of, and see how way off the mark they get, it can make a body cynical of everything you read.
As for this particular gunman being lonely, something went seriously wrong with his upbringing if he had been led to believe that he had a right to a girlfriend any more than a right to any friend at all! Friendship should be earned, or at the very least allowed to grow - who told him he could catch one with the bait of a 'nice home'?
It is up to mothers everywhere to raise there sons to behave like ordinary people, and take the knocks that life is bound to give them in their stride.
(I have a portable soap box - so don't drop a hat too near me, or you may start me off again!)

**windstar** · August 7th, 2009

Boodogie and moto praise on. I agree. I love news coverage of local happenings to keep me safe and aware. I don't want a lot of coverage of something going on ten states away. I hate a story being beat to death for the sake of ratings. I watch a lot of PBS where you don't get all that. Glad you survived the crisis you went thru and are now safe.

**tndenim** · August 7th, 2009

Depression and mental illness are very serious and very hare for the people who have it to control it. In their minds they feel ok and don't always realize what they do is not right. and even if they do know it's wrong - sometimes it is impossible for them to control it.

My step daughter was bi-polar and was also a borderline schzophrenic. But at her age - early teens - they were legal not even allowed to diagnose her with schzophrenia. That did not mean she did not have it. My step daughter spent her teenage years in and out of mental facilities. The violent acts against people - the multiple suicide attemps - the weekly and bi-weekly counseling sessions. And dealing with her predilition for violence was not always easy. My husband and I split up for awhile because of it. His daughter stayed with me because she was directing her anger at him. When he left she was fine for about 6 weeks - then she started turning her anger and violence against me. That is when he finally turned custody of her over to the state - at the recommendation of her theraphist and her psychologist. It did not change the degree of violence or anger - just turned it over to a new caregiver.

She started improving - but after she turned 18 - she walked away from the safe shelter she had been provided with. There is nothing they can do unless she commits a crime. Luckily - the medications she is taking now are working and she is fairly stable - but if she goes off them - who knows what will happen. I talk to her a few times a month and she's doing ok.

But unless there is someone ther to watch out for these people - there is little that can be done. and if they have violent tendencies - they could act them out. It's happened so many times in the past - and will most likely continue to happen.

I don't have a solution. Just wish someone would find one. And the sad thing is - when Rose is stable - she is a delightful person, funny - very enjoyable. I still can't help but love the kid. Even in her darkest times - I still loved the kid - did not always like her though - if that makes sense. Now I stood on my soapbox tonight - lol.

**jstitch** · August 7th, 2009

Thanks for sharing that with us, tndenim. I agree that mental illness is misunderstood, and so very hard to deal with. Even depression cannot be fully understood by someone who has not experienced it.

**Boodoggie11** · August 8th, 2009

Don't get me started about Bipolar. My daughter's step daughter was. I say was, because she honestly seems to have grown out of it. Now in her mid 20s. Where I would just want to slap her, or worse, she's now a total pleasure to be around. Look forward to seeing her! ME! Yep, tried to kill not only my daugher and her daughter, but several other's in the home she was in. They, too, had to turn her over to the state. So sad. But it was for the safety of the rest of the household. As well as for the girl herself.
That is a horrible thing. Horrible. Know several people who have had relatives that are Bipolar. And as long as they take their meds, they're usually fine. But when they get fine, they stop the meds. Former UPS man we had used to come to my home and sit on my deck steps with me and just cry his eyes out. His daughter. I cried with him. And his daughter was such a lovely girl when I met her. But I know how it can be with "them". (Not used in a bad way, "they" can't help it.)
Depression? My husband had migraines all of his life, until a wonderful doctor found the right mix of meds in 1982. The worst migraines. And depression. He checked into a mental health facility cause he wanted to kill himself. I know depression. Lived with it for most of our 49 years together. He's still not fully well, but soooooooooo much better at 80.
"When you read of something that you have first hand knowledge of, and see how way off the mark they get, it can make a body cynical of everything you read." Amen. You want to jerk the heads off the stupid people who are so very wrong. And who keep talking and making others believe them.
But when I say there is help out there, I know from where I speak. There is help. You just have to look for it. Firmly believe that God gave us the ability to help. Therefore, there is no shame in asking for it.